Show Me the Lettuce, John McCain!
John McCain thinks Americans are lazy slobs.
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Unlike many politicians, one cannot question John McCain's motives. He loves America more than most of us can imagine. That is a simple statement of fact, solidly based on his deeds. It would also seem, from looking at his long career in Congress, that financial greed is not relevant with him; nor a desire for power in its own right.
Despite his unimpeachable character and patriotism, though, it is still possible for him to be mistaken. Honestly mistaken, to be sure; but mistaken nonetheless. And in looking at the particular mistakes he tends to make, one can perhaps gain insight into the man.
This past weekend, Sen. McCain made a profoundly revealing statement on the campaign trail. As has been discussed extensively elsewhere, McCain is (at best) a recent convert to the concept of secure borders and an end to illegal immigration, which 80% of the American people strongly want.
He's taken flak for his minority position throughout this whole campaign; in fact, for a long while his candidacy was thought to be dead because of his intransigence on the issue. In recent months, he has backpedaled, saying that he has heard the call of the voters to secure the borders first, and will accommodate their wishes.
According to AP:
One audience member [asked] a pointed question on his immigration plan. McCain responded by saying immigrants were taking jobs nobody else wanted. He offered anybody in the crowd $50 an hour to pick lettuce in Arizona. Shouts of protest rose from the crowd, with some accepting McCain's job offer. "I'll take it!" one man shouted. McCain insisted none of them would do such menial labor for a complete season. "You can't do it, my friends." Some in the crowd said they didn't appreciate McCain questioning their work ethic.
Picking lettuce in the hot Arizona sun is hard work, no doubt about it. But for many if not most Americans, an hourly wage of $50 is the stuff of dreams, for which they would do darn near anything.
The average national hourly wage in 2006 was $16.75 so Sen. McCain's statement is quite extreme. He seriously thinks that Americans find lettuce so unappealing that they wouldn't pick the stuff for three times the average wage, and thus we must import millions of illiterate peasants to do it instead?
Let's look at it another way. No matter how unpleasant is the lot of a lettuce-picker, surely it is vastly preferable to many other roles in life - such as, for example, that of being tortured and imprisoned in North Vietnam for six years. Was McCain's military salary in excess of $50 per hour during this time? Doubtless not. So, in his own life, Sen. McCain has personally been willing to endure far worse, for far less.
That's hardly a fair comparison, of course - nobody serves their country in the military for the financial rewards. But in effect, Sen. McCain is saying Americans are too lazy and soft to do what needs to be done; therefore, we have to get other people to do it for us while we sit back in our recliners and watch TV.
He certainly has a point that Americans like convenience. But is it useful for a president to think that most Americans are hopeless slobs, and there's no use even trying to inspire them to get out and work?
American citizens don't want to pick lettuce, that's for sure. But it's not because they hate that particular vegetable, or even the Arizona sun. It's because the wages being paid are so pitifully small - and that, in turn, is because of the tens of millions of illegal immigrants who accept those un-American wages.
Raise the wages, and there will be no shortage of Americans perfectly willing to do whatever is being asked of them. This is true, in parody, for McCain's lettuce-pickers. It's equally true, in reality, when the government does its job and chucks out the illegals who have been knowingly hired by law-breaking businessmen because they are cheap.
We've seen this effect even in the recent "show" raids against meatpacking plants. The plants are frightened of losing their workers and being closed, so they dispense with the illegals. Of course, to hire legal Americans, they must pay higher wages to the workers - a good thing, isn't it?
John McCain tells us that Americans won't do dirty work for love or money. One can't help but think in contrast of Sir Winston Churchill. He bluntly told the Brits at the opening of the Second World War, "I have nothing to offer but blood, toil, tears, and sweat." But he then went on to inspire them to resist the all-powerful Nazis with words that ring down through the ages:
We shall not flag or fail. We shall go on to the end, we shall fight in France, we shall fight on the seas and oceans, we shall fight with growing confidence and growing strength in the air, we shall defend our Island, whatever the cost may be, we shall fight on the beaches, we shall fight on the landing grounds, we shall fight in the fields and in the streets, we shall fight in the hills; we shall never surrender...
Now that is the kind of leadership Americans yearn for.
John McCain is a great American and a great patriot. But when he told an American audience "You can't do it, my friends," he disqualified himself to be President.
In the dark days of the 1970s, when "stagflation" and the oil crisis dented the American spirit, Jimmy Carter gave the famous "malaise" speech, while wearing a sweater to demonstrate that the White House, too, had turned down the thermostat. In summary, he said these hard times are permanent, get used to it. Then Ronald Reagan came with his "Morning in America" message, and the rest is history.
Americans don't want to listen to snotty elites telling them what they can't do. They want leaders who will inspire them to new heights of achievement and greatness. Anyone who thinks there is anything Americans cannot or will not do has lost faith in the American people, and is unfit to lead them.
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What does Chinese history have to teach America that Joe Biden doesn't know?
(quick Google)
Yes, he earns a bit less than double that on an annualized salary basis. But $50/hr is about $100k/year. How many of his aides and staffers make that much?
"Can't find a lettuce picker for $50 per hour"? You could find two of them for that much, at least!!
I use to use the "McCain is a patriot, but" line myself in conversations. I am starting to believe I can't do that anymore. Perhaps the line should now be "McCain USE to be a patriot". How can you be a patriotic American and not utterly dispose the illegal immigration mess?
CHEAP TOMATOES......THE REAL WORLD.....
Tomatoes and Cheap Labor
CHEAP TOMATOES?
This should make everyone think, be you Democrat, Republican or Independent
From a California school teacher -- "As you listen to the news about the student protests over illegal immigration, there are some things that you should be aware of:
I am in charge of the English-as-a-second-language department at a large southern California high school which is designated a Title 1 school, meaning that its students average lower socioeconomic and income levels.
Most of the schools you are hearing about, South Gate High, Bell Gardens, Huntington Park, etc., where these students are protesting, are also Title 1 schools.
Title 1 schools are on the free breakfast and free lunch program. When I say free breakfast, I'm not talking a glass of milk and roll -- but a full breakfast and cereal bar with fruits and juices that would make a Marriott proud. The waste of this food is monumental, with trays and trays of it being dumped in the trash uneaten. (OUR TAX DOLLARS AT WORK )
I estimate that well over 50% of these students are obese or at least moderately overweight. About 75% or more DO have cell phones. The school also provides day care centers for the unwed teenage pregnant girls (some as young as 13) so they can attend class without the inconvenience of having to arrange for babysitters or having family watch their kids.
(OUR TAX DOLLARS AT WORK)
I was ordered to spend $700,000 on my department or risk losing funding for the upcoming year even though there was little need for anything; my budget was already substantial. I ended up buying new computers for the computer learning center, half of which, one month later, have been carved with graffiti by the appreciative students who obviously feel humbled and grateful to have a free education in America. (OUR TAX DOLLARS AT WORK)
I have had to intervene several times for young and substitute teachers whose classes consist of many illegal immigrant students here in the country less then 3 months who raised so much hell with the female teachers, calling them "Putas" whores and throwing things that the teachers were in tears.
Free medical, free education, free food, day care etc., etc, etc. Is it any wonder they feel entitled to not only be in this country but to demand rights, privileges and entitlements ?
To those who want to point out how much these illegal immigrants contribute to our society because they LIKE their gardener and housekeeper and they like to pay less for tomatoes: spend some time in the real world of illegal immigration and see the TRUE costs.
Higher insurance, medical facilities closing , higher medical costs, more crime, lower standards of education in our schools, overcrowding, new diseases etc., etc, etc.
For me, I'll pay more for tomatoes.
We need to wake up. The guest worker program will be a disaster because we won't have the guts to enforce it. Does anyone in their right mind really think they will voluntarily leave and return?
It does, however, have everything to do with culture: A third-world culture that does not value education , that accepts children getting pregnant and dropping out of school by 15 and that refuses to assimilate , and an American culture that has become so weak and worried about "politically correctness" that we don't have the will to do anything about it.
If this makes your blood boil , as it did mine, forward this to everyone you know.
CHEAP LABOR? Isn't that what the whole immigration issue is about?
-Business doesn't want to pay a decent wage.
-Consumers don't want expensive produce.
-Government will tell you Americans don't want the jobs. But the bottom line is cheap labor.
The phrase "cheap labor" is a myth , a farce, and a lie. There is no such thing as "cheap labor."
Take, for example, an illegal alien with a wife and five children. He takes a job for $5.00 or 6.00/hour. At that wage, with six dependents, he pays no income tax, yet at the end of the year, if he files an Income Tax Return, he gets an " earned income credit" of up to $3,200 free.
-He qualifies for Section 8 housing and subsidized rent.
-He qualifies for food stamps.
-He qualifies for free (no deductible, no co-pay) health care.
-His children get free breakfasts and lunches at school.
-He requires bilingual teachers and books.
-He qualifies for relief from high energy bills.
If they are or become, aged, blind or disabled, they qualify for SSI. Once qualified for SSI they can qualify for Medicare. All of this is at (our) taxpayer's expense .
He doesn't worry about car insurance, life insurance, or homeowners insurance.
Taxpayers provide Spanish language signs, bulletins and printed material.
He and his family receive the equivalent of $20.00 to $30.00/hour in benefits.
Working Americans are lucky to have $5.00 or $6.00/hour left after paying their bills and his.
The American taxpayers also pay for increased crime, graffiti and trash clean-up.
Cheap labor? YEAH RIGHT! Wake up people!
THESE ARE THE QUESTIONS WE SHOULD BE ADDRESSING TO THE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATES FOR EITHER PARTY. 'AND WHEN THEY LIE TO US AND DON'T DO AS THEY SAY, WE SHOULD REPLACE THEM AT ONCE!'
THIS HAS GOT TO BE PASSED ALONG TO AS MANY AS POSSIBLE OR WE WILL ALL GO DOWN THE DRAIN BECAUSE A FEW DON'T CARE.
Many of you are not going to like this next part, but I'm going to say it anyway and hope you read it carefully and with thought.
Early in his life, Benadict Arnold was a courageous man who fought valiantly for the colonies. In fact, he was an awarded general and a one-time friend of George Washington. Throughout the 1770s, it was hard to find another American soldier as distinguished as he. Read about his capture of Fort Ticonderoga or his heroism at Danbury Field. Washington commented multiple times on the success and courage of Colonel (and later General) Arnold. Arnold was nearly killed several times in battle, fighting alongside his men to the bitter end - either for victory or defeat. Any historian, who knows what he's talking about, will tell you that Arnold would never have gone over to the dark side had it not been for his wife's personal relationships with British court and his own financial problems.
My point with Benedict Arnold (and I hope anyone who hates this comparison actually READS some history on the matter) is to demonstrate that a man can be viewed as an ardent patriot throughout his career and then, suddenly, go in the opposite direction.
This is what American citizens have seen with McCain over the last decade. He has been shown on numerous, documentated occasions that the hispanic influx is destructive both economically and militarily. His own associates in Arizona have shown him this with the collapse of multiple Arizona hospitals. Yet he willfully ignores it for two reasons: 1) to retain his status as a media darling and 2) because he his personal friends with a lot of small construction firms who like having his ear. I agree that McCain has never shown that he takes money or tangible favors on the fly, but THERE IS NO DEBATE that he willing to sell out his country for favors from the press and his friends. Live with a dog, and you get fleas. He has chosen to associate with Kennedy and friends, and not the GOP has a mess on their hands.
Don't vote for John "Benedict Arnold" McCain, this fall!
If he did understand the problem, how come he thinks that $50 per hour is low?
A man that is THAT out of touch doesn't get the big picture. Don't underestimate how out of touch a congress-person or senator can be.
These guys have handlers for everything. They never write their own letters. J. M. is 72 years old for Christ's sake!
$50 however is a bit unrealistic, who would be willing to do the work for $25 an hour? And for how long? I might be convinced to take a very demanding job for a year or two if I could make six digits.
From everything I've gathered about migrant farm labor it isn't fun and takes a huge physical tole. From what I've heard turn over increases when illegal aliens are forced out of jobs. Of course Americans can work hard, even working in lettuce fields, but we don't want to.
We pay construction workers very well for a reason. How much would the price of lettuce go up if we had to pay migrant farm workers the same price?
However, whether americans would or wouldn't work on that field I'm all for allowing each and every immigrant in that is able to work and isn't chronically ill, just like in the good ol' days when migrants flooded into New York and California. Immigrants work hard, improve our standard of living and help us stay competitive in world of rising third world nations. As with all great civilizations we have grown complacent, immigrants help us keep our edge.
Yes, the price of lettuce would go up if we paid for American labor. That is a GOOD thing. Labor costs naturally rise over time relative to cost-of-living increases.
A friend of mine, a housing contractor, talks to no end how illegal labor has destroyed his industry. He can't work for the same wage he use to make because illegal migrants do the job for half as much.
I'm all for those "good ole days" too.
twibi: Unfortunately those 'good ol' days' never happened. There are reasons that we celebrate St. Patties Day. There is a reason why China Town's exist all over this nation. No one moves to a new nation and gives up their culture. People, en masse, don't move to America, and never have, for our culture, its the economic opportunities that they want and/or religious or political freedom.
I do not believe that American culture is inherently better than any other culture. There are certainly aspects of all cultures that are good and bad, the great thing about America is that we, over decades and centuries, include aspects of alien cultures into our own, hopefully taking what is best from all of them.
As an illistration of this:
According to Wikipedia, and I checked the sources that it used, Germans continued to be bilingual several generations after moving to America. I have annecdotal evidence from my mother, who grew up in a primarily German town (New Ulm, MN) that German was still widely spoken in business and churches until the 1950's. My family emigrated from German in the early 1800's. 150 years they continued to speak German. While continuing to speak German they fought in the Civil War for the Union and also, despite anti-German sentiment, helped during WWI and WWII against Germany.
It is easy to see all the cultures that have changed ours for the better just by looking at the food we eat. Italian, Chinese, German, and Japanese food is seen every where in America. Thank heaven for that, England is not known for its culinary greatness.
Before you use history to support what you want to believe make sure your facts are straight. History, when used accurately can greatly help understand a situation. When myths become treated as history, 'history' then can be used to back up any preconceived notion that you want it to.
When I heard the Republican candidates spouting off the same historically inaccurate nonsense that you stated it made me turn my back on the possibility of voting for any of them. If you're going to say something make sure its right, I don't see how thats too much to ask.
There is a difference between celebrating the remembrance of one's culture and still clinging to it as the base of one's current culture. Jony takes the view that public educators dole out now - celebrating diversity as the BASIS for American culture rather than a helpful addition TO an already existing American culture.
I would love to debate Jony one on one when it comes to American history. Those that read from history's greats need not resort to filling in details of their agenda from Wikipedia.
That being said, I went and sought a source that verified what I said. Which you obviously didn't do when you said that people were forced to change their names, do a search on google and find a reputable website that states that people were forced to change their names. I just did so, and I can't find any. Once again I could walk up to the local college but that would take a long time to look it up.
These same websites also talk about why and how people's names changed. I do know some people from Asia that take an American name, such as bob, simply because they get annoyed with people mispronouncing their names. Also some people that I have known change their name because they believe they are being discriminated against because of their name sounding strange.
Please take the time to verify what you say before you say it. It will make discussions far more interesting and useful.
And if you're referring to works of fictions as 'history's greats' they aren't always the best source for understanding history. When history isn't interesting enough authors tend to take liberties or when they just don't know the details. Les Miserable is a wonderful book, but it isn't usable as a way to study what happened, only what people thought of what happened at the time of the writing.
As I've stated before, if you're going to use history, look it up first.
I've gone to Ellis Island. I've seen the records. They have computers and videos there on display. I've also discussed this at length with relatives of those people who've changed their names. People changed their names for many reasons. The point here - no matter how hard you try to avoid it - is assimilation. When an Ellis Island gate manager couldn't pronounce (or didn't like) a name he ran into, he simply told the migrant to use something else. This didn't happen often, but it did happen. Interesting enough, the immigrant didn't mind. Inbound folks WANTED to be Americans. They understood the advantages the American culture offered and that was worth a trade. They wanted to lend their own help and make some profit at the same time.
A friend of mine is Hispanic. He is more outraged by fence-jumping than you or I could ever imagine. He stammers when talking about it. Why? Because he went the long way around, signed the guest book and spent 3 years learning English. It took another 5 years past that for him to get his citizenship. He setup a business to make US dollars. He celebrates the 4th of July, not the 5th of May. And while his children can speak Spanish, English is their first language and he is proud of that.
There is nothing wrong with loving German culture if you are a German or French culture if you are from France. But a nation cannot survive when it does not know what it is. A "melting pot" inherently is something that boils down many different things to create a new, unique entity. After a melting pot is finished, the original things no longer individually exist. Several of the founding fathers discussed this concept in detail (or do deny that history as well?). I would suggest America is no longer a melting pot, but a mosaic.
Discuss immigration with *legal* immigrants. You'll be surprised by their response.
Discuss immigration with a economists. You'll be surprised to find out that there is no such thing as "the jobs no one else wants". That is a marketing term for people who don't understand (or chose to ignore) the rudimentary theory of supply and demand.
The Economist routinely excoriates the political elites for the shortsightedness of "labor shortage" arguments. In fact, dig around this site a bit. Scragged has dozens of good articles on the subject.
this phrase is particularly hilarious - "No one moves to a new nation and gives up their culture"??!?
EVERYONE in every, single place in the entire world has to give up their culture when they move to a new nation.
do you think an american can move to mexico and force their neighbors to celebrate july 4th down there?
if you're french, can you move to russia and tell them that they should celebrate bastille day? umm......no
of course, you have to give up your culture! that's the whole point of moving "to a NEW nation"! nations have unique cultures. only stupid liberals believe that homogenous people should somehow be completely fine with other cultures demanding that they change.
What the hell does that have to do with anything? They still learned and spoke English. I know a lot of Germans. They're good, ethical, hard working people.
I bet your parents friends and townsfolk didn't expect American schools and business to accomodate them in German just because they all spoke it, did they?
They didn't expect the state of MN to change the official language to German, did they?
With every rule about people (such as, how do immigrants act) there are always exceptions. My sister-in-law (an immigrant from Kenya) absolutely hates many of the socially conservative laws. She had a very animated conversation with a cab driver, also from Africa, about how the only good thing that America has to offer over their home nations is money. For every example of a legal immigrant who loves American culture there is one that does not.
As for job surplus, I don't much care if there are or not. I'm a capitalist, agreeing more with Adam Smith than with any modern economist that I've had the pleasure of speaking with. What that means to me is that jobs should go who can get them. If there aren't enough jobs people will create them, unless the government gives them reason not to.
If Mexicans force Americans to work harder to earn their money I don't see a problem with that. I don't see a problem with having excess labor. Obviously there is still unemployment but there are also a great many of jobs out there that haven't been filled. Yes, we should drastically limit the entry of immigrants if we want to protect high wages, encourage laziness, and decreasing per capita output.
twibi: You're right, I can't move to mexico and demand them to celebrate the fourth of july. However, I would be willing to bet that if I moved to mexico along with several hundred other Americans we would continue to celebrate it. Who knows it might even catch on, like St. Patty's Day.
Penn had two state languages, both English and German. So at least someone thought it was a good idea to make German an official language.
The German immigrants didn't expect welfare, socialized health care, nor any other modern assistance that governments are expected to give. But then neither did the Americans that lived her at the time. Because FDR hadn't instituted any of them.
My family, I would have to do extensive study to learn about the generalized German population, lived in an nearly entirely German city and they continued to speak German at their homes, businesses, and in Government. I do believe it would be difficult for Mexicans or any other migrants to come to America and buy land cheaply from the US government and set up farms.
As with everyone, immigrants want to be able to live and work and provide for their families and children. What that means is that they'll take any and all assistance they can get to fulfill that need.
Given a few generations the children of Mexicans will speak English indistinguishable from any other American. I have known a great many immigrants, mostly from Africa. The parents that do not speak English when they come here have a very difficult time learning, their children learn after only a very short time.
Legal immigrants that dislike American culture are welcome to leave. Why don't unhappy immigrants take their ingenuity to a country whose culture they do like and boost the economy of that country?
The sister-in-law story is quite hard to believe. She prefers the laws of Kenya over the US?? I've never been to Kenya, but I do know two missionary families that were stationed there for decades. Their stories were eye opening. Your sister-in-law prefers the religious persecution of Kenya over the US? Specifically, which socially-conservative laws does she not like in the US that are superior in Kenya?
Since you claim to be a capitalist who favors Adam Smith, please demonstrate which of his principles, teachings, books, etc would favor illegal immigration. There IS NO excess labor. Labor shortage is bogus. Liberals are reluctant to accept the facts because it destroys their underlying agenda. Your specific reply on this ought to be interesting.
You said "What that means to me is that jobs should go who can get them". Really? So if I pull out a gun, walk into a Wall Street firm and take the members of the board hostage until I get the CEO's job, that is fine by you? One of the basic rules of economics is rule of law. Jobs cannot go "to whoever can get them" if those people are breaking the law getting them in the first place. What part of "illegal" immigration don't you get? Never mind the laws that employers are breaking too.
And no, Mexican children are NOT being forced to assimilate into American culture. That is the very essence of the problem. There are videos all over the net of Mexican immigrants screaming that it's time for a hispanic revolution, that "old white man have run the US for too long and now it's their turn", that major parts of the US will once again return to Mexico, that everyone should be speaking spanish, etc, etc. When first told about this stuff, I didn't believe it. Then I saw the speechs and was absolutely blown away. The mayor of LA even has a skim-milk record of doing this.
No one - that I know - has a problem with LEGAL immigration, even for millions and millions of Mexicans. The problem is that because of the sudden volume of ILLEGAL entry, they have assumed the right NOT to assimilate. Furthermore, that non-assimilation has allowed them to become "virtual residents" who constantly move around, send billions of dollars into the economy of another country, live on ridiculously little amounts of money, undercut the job market, break laws with little recourse and further erode the health care system.
I don't agree with everything they say but they expose a lot of news and opinion you don't see everywhere else.
The leader, William Gheen, is a regular on CNN, Fox News and MSNBC. He's quite well spoke on a number of immigration issues.
Fuck mexico!